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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by EVA_01 on Mon May 04, 2015 1:05 pm

trexalfa wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:
trexalfa wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:@ChaosKnight75

Then it depends on what Gabriel actually does. Is it reality warping? Or is it simply bringing a fictional character into life? If it's the latter then I don't see why not, however summoning TOAA would prove to be mind boggling. Either he won't be Omnipotent in Supernatural, or he won't be able to summon it altogether.


Just to make it clear, Gabriel couldn't summon TOAA in his wildest dreams. But leaving that aside, he summoned a fictional character. A fictional character that was well within his power range. Gabriel's shown pocket dimension creation powers and pretty nice time fuckery. And probably would get lots of others via powerscalling from random Angels.

But simply put, summon an omnipotent character is, in itself, an act of Omnipotence. And Gabriel sure isn't omnipotent. Therefore, being not omnipotent, all his powers have limits. Which would apply to Bohemian Rhapsody since the Stand isn't omnipotent. Also, if the summoned TOAA were to be nerfed, the summoned thing isn't TOAA. Period.

And to make an omnipotent do the user's (or Gabriel's) bidding... that's something I won't get in, because it's bullshit, a steaming hot pile of bullshit.



I did address that, and I did say BR couldn't deal with Omnipotents, that's absurd. Read my posts again


And I did address the nerfing. Which means it wouldn't be summoning TOAA in the first place.
You're telling me stuff I already said. I know it couldn't summon TOAA, what's the point of telling me?
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by EVA_01 on Mon May 04, 2015 1:07 pm

@trexalfa 
there's a difference between it didn't and it can't. Look at the scans and read my posts, the process was clearly random, it just so happens that none of them were summoned.

Unbelievably convenient? yes, but it's fiction so what's the point?
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by trexalfa on Mon May 04, 2015 1:09 pm

EVA_01 wrote:
trexalfa wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:
trexalfa wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:@ChaosKnight75

Then it depends on what Gabriel actually does. Is it reality warping? Or is it simply bringing a fictional character into life? If it's the latter then I don't see why not, however summoning TOAA would prove to be mind boggling. Either he won't be Omnipotent in Supernatural, or he won't be able to summon it altogether.


Just to make it clear, Gabriel couldn't summon TOAA in his wildest dreams. But leaving that aside, he summoned a fictional character. A fictional character that was well within his power range. Gabriel's shown pocket dimension creation powers and pretty nice time fuckery. And probably would get lots of others via powerscalling from random Angels.

But simply put, summon an omnipotent character is, in itself, an act of Omnipotence. And Gabriel sure isn't omnipotent. Therefore, being not omnipotent, all his powers have limits. Which would apply to Bohemian Rhapsody since the Stand isn't omnipotent. Also, if the summoned TOAA were to be nerfed, the summoned thing isn't TOAA. Period.

And to make an omnipotent do the user's (or Gabriel's) bidding... that's something I won't get in, because it's bullshit, a steaming hot pile of bullshit.



I did address that, and I did say BR couldn't deal with Omnipotents, that's absurd. Read my posts again


And I did address the nerfing. Which means it wouldn't be summoning TOAA in the first place.
You're telling me stuff I already said. I know it couldn't summon TOAA, what's the point of telling me?


The point is that you already have admitted it Bohemian Rhapsody's got limits. Therefore, since it's got limits, we will stick to feats. And those feats are not dealing with Demonbane, so I suggest looking a better argument.

To your post below, do you realize you are making assumptions, which is a pretty bad debating practise? We don't know if it can, because we simply have not seen it. Plot convenience? Show me a quote by Araki telling us it is, cause well... you simply cannot tell. Familiar with the concept of no limits fallacy? Because that's what you are pulling.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by EVA_01 on Mon May 04, 2015 1:18 pm

trexalfa wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:
trexalfa wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:
trexalfa wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:@ChaosKnight75

Then it depends on what Gabriel actually does. Is it reality warping? Or is it simply bringing a fictional character into life? If it's the latter then I don't see why not, however summoning TOAA would prove to be mind boggling. Either he won't be Omnipotent in Supernatural, or he won't be able to summon it altogether.


Just to make it clear, Gabriel couldn't summon TOAA in his wildest dreams. But leaving that aside, he summoned a fictional character. A fictional character that was well within his power range. Gabriel's shown pocket dimension creation powers and pretty nice time fuckery. And probably would get lots of others via powerscalling from random Angels.

But simply put, summon an omnipotent character is, in itself, an act of Omnipotence. And Gabriel sure isn't omnipotent. Therefore, being not omnipotent, all his powers have limits. Which would apply to Bohemian Rhapsody since the Stand isn't omnipotent. Also, if the summoned TOAA were to be nerfed, the summoned thing isn't TOAA. Period.

And to make an omnipotent do the user's (or Gabriel's) bidding... that's something I won't get in, because it's bullshit, a steaming hot pile of bullshit.



I did address that, and I did say BR couldn't deal with Omnipotents, that's absurd. Read my posts again


And I did address the nerfing. Which means it wouldn't be summoning TOAA in the first place.
You're telling me stuff I already said. I know it couldn't summon TOAA, what's the point of telling me?


The point is that you already have admitted it Bohemian Rhapsody's got limits. Therefore, since it's got limits, we will stick to feats. And those feats are not dealing with Demonbane, so I suggest looking a better argument.

To your post below, do you realize you are making assumptions, which is a pretty bad debating practise? We don't know if it can, because we simply have not seen it. Plot convenience? Show me a quote by Araki telling us it is, cause well... you simply cannot tell. Familiar with the concept of no limits fallacy? Because that's what you are pulling.
Ok ok ok ok stop. You wanna play the feats-only game? How about this, not too long ago it was agreed that GER would beat STTGL, despite GER not fighting someone as strong as STTGL. Why do you think it was agreed that it would beat it? It's called potential. 

Why wouldn't it? I'll say it flat out, none of you managed to explain why it wouldn't be able to bring those characters. I say BR can bring fictional characters to life, you say "No it can't....because...well, they're just too powerful!" How? Why? Why can't it bring a FICTIONAL CHARACTER into life because it's too powerful.
It's not just plot convenience, Araki probably doesn't even know these characters exist, which is why they weren't written into the scenario, or maybe he does but chose not to. Simple as that. And I have shown that the process of summoning characters on a global is random.
It's not NLF when we just said it has a limit -_-
Tis' you who needs a better argument.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by trexalfa on Mon May 04, 2015 1:27 pm

EVA_01 wrote:
trexalfa wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:
trexalfa wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:
trexalfa wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:@ChaosKnight75

Then it depends on what Gabriel actually does. Is it reality warping? Or is it simply bringing a fictional character into life? If it's the latter then I don't see why not, however summoning TOAA would prove to be mind boggling. Either he won't be Omnipotent in Supernatural, or he won't be able to summon it altogether.


Just to make it clear, Gabriel couldn't summon TOAA in his wildest dreams. But leaving that aside, he summoned a fictional character. A fictional character that was well within his power range. Gabriel's shown pocket dimension creation powers and pretty nice time fuckery. And probably would get lots of others via powerscalling from random Angels.

But simply put, summon an omnipotent character is, in itself, an act of Omnipotence. And Gabriel sure isn't omnipotent. Therefore, being not omnipotent, all his powers have limits. Which would apply to Bohemian Rhapsody since the Stand isn't omnipotent. Also, if the summoned TOAA were to be nerfed, the summoned thing isn't TOAA. Period.

And to make an omnipotent do the user's (or Gabriel's) bidding... that's something I won't get in, because it's bullshit, a steaming hot pile of bullshit.



I did address that, and I did say BR couldn't deal with Omnipotents, that's absurd. Read my posts again


And I did address the nerfing. Which means it wouldn't be summoning TOAA in the first place.
You're telling me stuff I already said. I know it couldn't summon TOAA, what's the point of telling me?


The point is that you already have admitted it Bohemian Rhapsody's got limits. Therefore, since it's got limits, we will stick to feats. And those feats are not dealing with Demonbane, so I suggest looking a better argument.

To your post below, do you realize you are making assumptions, which is a pretty bad debating practise? We don't know if it can, because we simply have not seen it. Plot convenience? Show me a quote by Araki telling us it is, cause well... you simply cannot tell. Familiar with the concept of no limits fallacy? Because that's what you are pulling.
Ok ok ok ok stop. You wanna play the feats-only game? How about this, not too long ago it was agreed that GER would beat STTGL, despite GER not fighting someone as strong as STTGL. Why do you think it was agreed that it would beat it? It's called potential. 

Why wouldn't it? I'll say it flat out, none of you managed to explain why it wouldn't be able to bring those characters. I say BR can bring fictional characters to life, you say "No it can't....because...well, they're just too powerful!" How? Why? Why can't it bring a FICTIONAL CHARACTER into life because it's too powerful.
It's not just plot convenience, Araki probably doesn't even know these characters exist, which is why they weren't written into the scenario, or maybe he does but chose not to. Simple as that. And I have shown that the process of summoning characters on a global is random.
It's not NLF when we just said it has a limit -_-
Tis' you who needs a better argument.


I would simply say that GER beats STTGL because it can erase universe wide effects, not because of potential. If anything, STTGL has potential in spades thanks to Spiral Power.

Shocked Saying omnipotence is the limit of something is... not quite a downgrade. The treatment it's getting is still that of a No Limits Fallacy, cause we don't need omnipotence, simply something that can beat Demonbane. And there's still the argument that it could, despite its feats showing us otherwise. There's also the fact that there's not even proof it was going to summon say... universal characters, not only that it obviously didn't.

And yes, if it brings a fictional character into reality, it ceases to be fiction. And it would depend on the Stand's power to come to life. And I doubt said Stand can support someone one shotting galaxies by thinking hard.

And hell, we don't even know what the hell Kars' version can do.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by Gio Gio on Mon May 04, 2015 1:33 pm

But EVA just spent like 2 pages explaining what NK can do but you guys seem to be stuck on feats only and avoiding his question.
I look at it like this.
Every single stand now belongs to Kars lets just not take in the fact he copies abilities and what not also.
All iv'e been seeing here is the whole feats argument. Really? If we use Feats Goku isn't even Planet Level. STTGL can't beat anything above Galaxy level.
Like scaling is allowed for anything but Jojo i'm not understanding. BR obviously has a limit it'd be NLF to say something such as Oh yeah BR can summon omni's EVA already said that'd be absurd but beyond that why couldn't it summon a character to stomp EGD?
That's my question or anyone else for that matter.
The power of imagination>Most powers.
BR showed no limits except we say Omni's are barred.
End of story.
The entire argument here is not valid and lets not forget like he said going to Heaven and multiplying everything by infinity.
Lets also not forget Dark Mirage bring your mirage into real life.
Kars can imagine another EGD who's 10X stronger and that's game.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by EVA_01 on Mon May 04, 2015 1:36 pm

trexalfa wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:
trexalfa wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:
trexalfa wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:
trexalfa wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:@ChaosKnight75

Then it depends on what Gabriel actually does. Is it reality warping? Or is it simply bringing a fictional character into life? If it's the latter then I don't see why not, however summoning TOAA would prove to be mind boggling. Either he won't be Omnipotent in Supernatural, or he won't be able to summon it altogether.


Just to make it clear, Gabriel couldn't summon TOAA in his wildest dreams. But leaving that aside, he summoned a fictional character. A fictional character that was well within his power range. Gabriel's shown pocket dimension creation powers and pretty nice time fuckery. And probably would get lots of others via powerscalling from random Angels.

But simply put, summon an omnipotent character is, in itself, an act of Omnipotence. And Gabriel sure isn't omnipotent. Therefore, being not omnipotent, all his powers have limits. Which would apply to Bohemian Rhapsody since the Stand isn't omnipotent. Also, if the summoned TOAA were to be nerfed, the summoned thing isn't TOAA. Period.

And to make an omnipotent do the user's (or Gabriel's) bidding... that's something I won't get in, because it's bullshit, a steaming hot pile of bullshit.



I did address that, and I did say BR couldn't deal with Omnipotents, that's absurd. Read my posts again


And I did address the nerfing. Which means it wouldn't be summoning TOAA in the first place.
You're telling me stuff I already said. I know it couldn't summon TOAA, what's the point of telling me?


The point is that you already have admitted it Bohemian Rhapsody's got limits. Therefore, since it's got limits, we will stick to feats. And those feats are not dealing with Demonbane, so I suggest looking a better argument.

To your post below, do you realize you are making assumptions, which is a pretty bad debating practise? We don't know if it can, because we simply have not seen it. Plot convenience? Show me a quote by Araki telling us it is, cause well... you simply cannot tell. Familiar with the concept of no limits fallacy? Because that's what you are pulling.
Ok ok ok ok stop. You wanna play the feats-only game? How about this, not too long ago it was agreed that GER would beat STTGL, despite GER not fighting someone as strong as STTGL. Why do you think it was agreed that it would beat it? It's called potential. 

Why wouldn't it? I'll say it flat out, none of you managed to explain why it wouldn't be able to bring those characters. I say BR can bring fictional characters to life, you say "No it can't....because...well, they're just too powerful!" How? Why? Why can't it bring a FICTIONAL CHARACTER into life because it's too powerful.
It's not just plot convenience, Araki probably doesn't even know these characters exist, which is why they weren't written into the scenario, or maybe he does but chose not to. Simple as that. And I have shown that the process of summoning characters on a global is random.
It's not NLF when we just said it has a limit -_-
Tis' you who needs a better argument.


I would simply say that GER beats STTGL because it can erase universe wide effects, not because of potential. If anything, STTGL has potential in spades thanks to Spiral Power.

Shocked  Saying omnipotence is the limit of something is... not quite a downgrade. The treatment it's getting is still that of a No Limits Fallacy, cause we don't need omnipotence, simply something that can beat Demonbane. And there's still the argument that it could, despite its feats showing us otherwise. There's also the fact that there's not even proof it was going to summon say... universal characters, not only that it obviously didn't.

And yes, if it brings a fictional character into reality, it ceases to be fiction. And it would depend on the Stand's power to come to life. And I doubt said Stand can support someone one shotting galaxies by thinking hard.

And hell, we don't even know what the hell Kars' version can do.
That's the problem man.
Why if a character is too powerful it wouldn't be able to summon it? Just exactly why? So far you and Cosmic (You know him as Chaos) have been telling me it can't bring fictional of a certain into life because....they're too powerful. Do you know how vague and confusing that sounds? BR's ability is simply just to bring fictional things into life and that's it. You're telling me there's a limit but other than telling me they're too powerful neither of you have said anything.

Why do you doubt that? Any other particular reason other than "they're too powerful"?

We know what Kars can do. He has every stand you can think of, he destroyed 36 universes, then reached Heaven and it attained immortality and infinite power among other things. You just didn't look into it.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by ChaosKnight75 on Mon May 04, 2015 1:38 pm

Might as well come clean and say in a very rare moment in a debate, I lied in the GioGio vs Gurren Lagann thread since I REALLY wasn't in the mood for another GER debate. STTGL literally stomps if you ask me. If you want my argument, just look at what I've said before.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by EVA_01 on Mon May 04, 2015 1:38 pm

Gio Gio wrote:But EVA just spent like 2 pages explaining what NK can do but you guys seem to be stuck on feats only and avoiding his question.
I look at it like this.
Every single stand now belongs to Kars lets just not take in the fact he copies abilities and what not also.
All iv'e been seeing here is the whole feats argument. Really? If we use Feats Goku isn't even Planet Level. STTGL can't beat anything above Galaxy level.
Like scaling is allowed for anything but Jojo i'm not understanding. BR obviously has a limit it'd be NLF to say something such as Oh yeah BR can summon omni's EVA already said that'd be absurd but beyond that why couldn't it summon a character to stomp EGD?
That's my question or anyone else for that matter.
The power of imagination>Most powers.
BR showed no limits except we say Omni's are barred.
End of story.
The entire argument here is not valid and lets not forget like he said going to Heaven and multiplying everything by infinity.
Lets also not forget Dark Mirage bring your mirage into real life.
Kars can imagine another EGD who's 10X stronger and that's game.
F***ing thank you
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by EVA_01 on Mon May 04, 2015 1:39 pm

ChaosKnight75 wrote:Might as well come clean and say in a very rare moment in a debate, I lied in the GioGio vs Gurren Lagann thread since I REALLY wasn't in the mood for another GER debate. STTGL literally stomps if you ask me. If you want my argument, just look at what I've said before.
Let's not turn it into a GER vs STTGL debate here shall we? I can humour you if you want, GER beats STTGL badly.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by ChaosKnight75 on Mon May 04, 2015 1:40 pm

It's not just feats only. There's powerscaling and a little something called applying logic. Stairway to Heaven >>>>>>>>> Bohemian Rhapsody once all 3 are applied.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by Gio Gio on Mon May 04, 2015 1:42 pm

Don't even know why STTGL is even a debate with GER tbh.
Casualty manipulation is more than enough to deal with a mech with pilots.
Now back on topic as I said above. The only reason Ungalo lost is as said before Annasui and WR summoned a character that was strong enough to beat all fictional characters yes? That's all there is to it.
And i'm not understanding he couldn't summon them because "Too Powerful"
By that logic then Goku can't destroy Solar Systems to save his life cause they're Too powerful. Vague explanations will not win this debate nor will shouting feats. We know what Kars can do and is capable of so i'd agree on either he imagines a character that EGD cannot defeat and destroys him or it ends in a stalemate.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by EVA_01 on Mon May 04, 2015 1:42 pm

ChaosKnight75 wrote:It's not just feats only. There's powerscaling and a little something called applying logic. Stairway to Heaven >>>>>>>>> Bohemian Rhapsody once all 3 are applied.
You have forgot one more thing. Ungalo is a stupid junkie. Like Okuyasu he doesn't know how to use his ridiculously OP power well, compared to the guy orchestrating a grand scheme to achieve godlike powers for years.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by trexalfa on Mon May 04, 2015 1:43 pm

ChaosKnight75 wrote:It's not just feats only. There's powerscaling and a little something called applying logic. Stairway to Heaven >>>>>>>>> Bohemian Rhapsody once all 3 are applied.


cheers cheers cheers

EVA_01 wrote:That's the problem man.
Why if a character is too powerful it wouldn't be able to summon it? Just exactly why? So far you and Cosmic (You know him as Chaos) have been telling me it can't bring fictional of a certain into life because....they're too powerful. Do you know how vague and confusing that sounds? BR's ability is simply just to bring fictional things into life and that's it. You're telling me there's a limit but other than telling me they're too powerful neither of you have said anything.

Why do you doubt that? Any other particular reason other than "they're too powerful"?

We know what Kars can do. He has every stand you can think of, he destroyed 36 universes, then reached Heaven and it attained immortality and infinite power among other things. You just didn't look into it.


Because you are literally turning an ability which has shown a limited and not very impressive number of things, and extrapolating its powers to infinity with omnipotence as its only limit. Just by hype alone, Made in Heaven is above it. Bohemian Rhapsody wasn't a big deal in hear, Made in Heaven was.

If I were to do what you are just doing, I've got a city+ level character that can one shot this version of Kars from some universes away.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by Gio Gio on Mon May 04, 2015 1:43 pm

Applying logic and powerscaling huh?
Show me anywhere where it states BR had limits.
Also show me why if Kars went to Heaven and made everything infinite then why BR itself is not infinite even though it already was but still.
And STH why is that brought here we aren't focusing on STH right now.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by Gio Gio on Mon May 04, 2015 1:45 pm

You know BR is above it because what?
Because BR wasn't used against Pucci sir :3
So great argument there my bro.
And it wasn't a big deal? Which is why Annasui and WR couldn't find its weakness right?
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by EVA_01 on Mon May 04, 2015 1:46 pm

trexalfa wrote:
ChaosKnight75 wrote:It's not just feats only. There's powerscaling and a little something called applying logic. Stairway to Heaven >>>>>>>>> Bohemian Rhapsody once all 3 are applied.


cheers cheers cheers

EVA_01 wrote:That's the problem man.
Why if a character is too powerful it wouldn't be able to summon it? Just exactly why? So far you and Cosmic (You know him as Chaos) have been telling me it can't bring fictional of a certain into life because....they're too powerful. Do you know how vague and confusing that sounds? BR's ability is simply just to bring fictional things into life and that's it. You're telling me there's a limit but other than telling me they're too powerful neither of you have said anything.

Why do you doubt that? Any other particular reason other than "they're too powerful"?

We know what Kars can do. He has every stand you can think of, he destroyed 36 universes, then reached Heaven and it attained immortality and infinite power among other things. You just didn't look into it.


Because you are literally turning an ability which has shown a limited and not very impressive number of things, and extrapolating its powers to infinity with omnipotence as its only limit. Just by hype alone, Made in Heaven is above it. Bohemian Rhapsody wasn't a big deal in hear, Made in Heaven was.

If I were to do what you are just doing, I've got a city+ level character that can one shot this version of Kars from some universes away.
Hasn't shown any limit whatsoever, if it did I wouldn't be here. At this point I'm guaranteed to repeat myself, I have 2 pages worth of explanation and I won't do it again, compared to you whose argument is "they're too powerful".
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by Gio Gio on Mon May 04, 2015 1:48 pm

Guess those 2 pages of explanation and what iv'e been saying don't matter.
Saying Too powerful is the worst reasoning iv'e heard in a long time no offense.
If Araki put no limits on it then obviously its taken that way.
Do you honestly think that if WR and Annasui were killed Ungalo wouldn't just let his creations run wild? Oh wait he was doing that everyone would've been killed.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by ChaosKnight75 on Mon May 04, 2015 1:49 pm

EVA_01 wrote:
ChaosKnight75 wrote:Might as well come clean and say in a very rare moment in a debate, I lied in the GioGio vs Gurren Lagann thread since I REALLY wasn't in the mood for another GER debate. STTGL literally stomps if you ask me. If you want my argument, just look at what I've said before.
Let's not turn it into a GER vs STTGL debate here shall we? I can humour you if you want, GER beats STTGL badly.
Wasn't going to until everyone started throwing that thread out as an argument. Also STTGL controls all reality and probability on at least a Universal scale and low-Multiversal if you scale him to Anti-Spril due to the Multi-Dimensional Labyrinth it created and manipulated, which is specifically stated to hold several alternate universes. A reality warper on that scale is more then I can give GER alone credit in beating. Novel Kars is a completely different story I'll agree, but if we go the NLF route, I can make an argument amount Spiral Energy and general Rule of Cool and say they evolve enough to beat him anyway while on their way to take on their sworn enemy, Elder God Demonbane. After all, Spiral Energy has no definite limit in power and abilities one can achieve with it too.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by trexalfa on Mon May 04, 2015 1:50 pm

Gio Gio wrote:Applying logic and powerscaling huh?
Show me anywhere where it states BR had limits.
Also show me why if Kars went to Heaven and made everything infinite then why BR itself is not infinite even though it already was but still.
And STH why is that brought here we aren't focusing on STH right now.


Also, what the fuck? You guys are the ones claiming it has no limits, prove it. You are making a positive claim, you have to prove it. I cannot prove negatives (Umineko reference).

Show me something it states  it has no limits. Wait? There isn't any scan. Not that it would have been enough proof.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by EVA_01 on Mon May 04, 2015 1:50 pm

ChaosKnight75 wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:
ChaosKnight75 wrote:Might as well come clean and say in a very rare moment in a debate, I lied in the GioGio vs Gurren Lagann thread since I REALLY wasn't in the mood for another GER debate. STTGL literally stomps if you ask me. If you want my argument, just look at what I've said before.
Let's not turn it into a GER vs STTGL debate here shall we? I can humour you if you want, GER beats STTGL badly.
Wasn't going to until everyone started throwing that thread out as an argument. Also STTGL controls all reality and probability on at least a Universal scale and low-Multiversal if you scale him to Anti-Spril due to the Multi-Dimensional Labyrinth it created and manipulated, which is specifically stated to hold several alternate universes. A reality warper on that scale is more then I can give GER alone credit in beating. Novel Kars is a completely different story I'll agree, but if we go the NLF route, I can make an argument amount Spiral Energy and general Rule of Cool and say they evolve enough to beat him anyway while on their way to take on their sworn enemy, Elder God Demonbane. After all, Spiral Energy has no definite limit in power and abilities one can achieve with it too.
Good thing I have this piece of text saved:

To Gold Experience Requiem range should be completely irrelevant. As you know, it can act within erased time as it negated Diavolo's attacks in erased time and put him in a death loop through causality manipulation. However, GER doesn't simply transcend time, it also transcends space because time and space are two sides of the same coin, you can't have time without having space and vice versa, there's a reason why they're called space-time instead of time AND space. So when Diavolo erases time, he also erases space, and so that means GER acted in both of the absence of time and space, or should I say, space-time. And so when you transcend space-time you transcend 4 dimensions, making distance and duration completely irrelevant. And that also means that GER is effectively a hyper-dimensional entity, at least 5-dimensional.

But then comes the next part, GER doesn't simply control causality, it also controls probability as these two are also two sides of the same coin and you can't have one without the other, look up probabilistic causation; these two concepts exist across all of existence because they are fundamental pivotal concepts, so that also means that GER's powers aren't "multiversal", they are way beyond that, they apply to all of creation, further cemented by GER transcending space-time.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by EVA_01 on Mon May 04, 2015 1:53 pm

trexalfa wrote:
Gio Gio wrote:Applying logic and powerscaling huh?
Show me anywhere where it states BR had limits.
Also show me why if Kars went to Heaven and made everything infinite then why BR itself is not infinite even though it already was but still.
And STH why is that brought here we aren't focusing on STH right now.


Also, what the fuck? You guys are the ones claiming it has no limits, prove it. You are making a positive claim, you have to prove it. I cannot prove negatives (Umineko reference).

Show me something it states  it has no limits. Wait? There isn't any scan. Not that it would have been enough proof.
Show me that it has. Wait, "they're too powerful"? Yeah, no.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by ChaosKnight75 on Mon May 04, 2015 1:54 pm

Gio Gio wrote:You know BR is above it because what?
Because BR wasn't used against Pucci sir :3
So great argument there my bro.
And it wasn't a big deal? Which is why Annasui and WR couldn't find its weakness right?
nothing says otherwise either, you make your assumption on what's shown. Bohemian Rhapsody makes paper dolls and caused global scale destruction despite what I can do on paper. Stairway to Heaven accelerates time to infinity, stomped almost all the protagonists, ended the universe by accelerating time to its end, and upon death, retconned the entire verse once more. That's more credit than I can give anyone in JJBA barring Novel Kars credit for. And I'll stick to it unless there comes a time where for some reason they do fight or if Araki decides to say otherwise.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by trexalfa on Mon May 04, 2015 1:54 pm

EVA_01 wrote:
ChaosKnight75 wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:
ChaosKnight75 wrote:Might as well come clean and say in a very rare moment in a debate, I lied in the GioGio vs Gurren Lagann thread since I REALLY wasn't in the mood for another GER debate. STTGL literally stomps if you ask me. If you want my argument, just look at what I've said before.
Let's not turn it into a GER vs STTGL debate here shall we? I can humour you if you want, GER beats STTGL badly.
Wasn't going to until everyone started throwing that thread out as an argument. Also STTGL controls all reality and probability on at least a Universal scale and low-Multiversal if you scale him to Anti-Spril due to the Multi-Dimensional Labyrinth it created and manipulated, which is specifically stated to hold several alternate universes. A reality warper on that scale is more then I can give GER alone credit in beating. Novel Kars is a completely different story I'll agree, but if we go the NLF route, I can make an argument amount Spiral Energy and general Rule of Cool and say they evolve enough to beat him anyway while on their way to take on their sworn enemy, Elder God Demonbane. After all, Spiral Energy has no definite limit in power and abilities one can achieve with it too.
Good thing I have this piece of text saved:

To Gold Experience Requiem range should be completely irrelevant. As you know, it can act within erased time as it negated Diavolo's attacks in erased time and put him in a death loop through causality manipulation. However, GER doesn't simply transcend time, it also transcends space because time and space are two sides of the same coin, you can't have time without having space and vice versa, there's a reason why they're called space-time instead of time AND space. So when Diavolo erases time, he also erases space, and so that means GER acted in both of the absence of time and space, or should I say, space-time. And so when you transcend space-time you transcend 4 dimensions, making distance and duration completely irrelevant. And that also means that GER is effectively a hyper-dimensional entity, at least 5-dimensional.

But then comes the next part, GER doesn't simply control causality, it also controls probability as these two are also two sides of the same coin and you can't have one without the other, look up probabilistic causation; these two concepts exist across all of existence because they are fundamental pivotal concepts, so that also means that GER's powers aren't "multiversal", they are way beyond that, they apply to all of creation, further cemented by GER transcending space-time.


I'm just going to answer to the GER argument once. All of this is nice and all, but please, show it affecting something beyond universal, please? If you can't , you have already found GER's limits. It still wins against STTGL in my opinion, mind you (you know this could be easily countered with "Spiral Power makes STTGL evolve and become inmune to GER", right? Which is another example of no limits fallacy).

EVA_01 wrote:Show me that it has. Wait, "they're too powerful"? Yeah, no.


You made the claim , you offer proof. So far, I haven't seen any.
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

Post by ChaosKnight75 on Mon May 04, 2015 1:57 pm

EVA_01 wrote:
ChaosKnight75 wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:
ChaosKnight75 wrote:Might as well come clean and say in a very rare moment in a debate, I lied in the GioGio vs Gurren Lagann thread since I REALLY wasn't in the mood for another GER debate. STTGL literally stomps if you ask me. If you want my argument, just look at what I've said before.
Let's not turn it into a GER vs STTGL debate here shall we? I can humour you if you want, GER beats STTGL badly.
Wasn't going to until everyone started throwing that thread out as an argument. Also STTGL controls all reality and probability on at least a Universal scale and low-Multiversal if you scale him to Anti-Spril due to the Multi-Dimensional Labyrinth it created and manipulated, which is specifically stated to hold several alternate universes. A reality warper on that scale is more then I can give GER alone credit in beating. Novel Kars is a completely different story I'll agree, but if we go the NLF route, I can make an argument amount Spiral Energy and general Rule of Cool and say they evolve enough to beat him anyway while on their way to take on their sworn enemy, Elder God Demonbane. After all, Spiral Energy has no definite limit in power and abilities one can achieve with it too.
Good thing I have this piece of text saved:

To Gold Experience Requiem range should be completely irrelevant. As you know, it can act within erased time as it negated Diavolo's attacks in erased time and put him in a death loop through causality manipulation. However, GER doesn't simply transcend time, it also transcends space because time and space are two sides of the same coin, you can't have time without having space and vice versa, there's a reason why they're called space-time instead of time AND space. So when Diavolo erases time, he also erases space, and so that means GER acted in both of the absence of time and space, or should I say, space-time. And so when you transcend space-time you transcend 4 dimensions, making distance and duration completely irrelevant. And that also means that GER is effectively a hyper-dimensional entity, at least 5-dimensional.

But then comes the next part, GER doesn't simply control causality, it also controls probability as these two are also two sides of the same coin and you can't have one without the other, look up probabilistic causation; these two concepts exist across all of existence because they are fundamental pivotal concepts, so that also means that GER's powers aren't "multiversal", they are way beyond that, they apply to all of creation, further cemented by GER transcending space-time.
And I see it as a Stand that affects the concept of cause and effect by nullifying the effect and for all we know, fell victim to Universal scale reality warping. Matches perfectly with the description said about it. Dude, OthusVice hasn't been this lively in a while. I'm loving it.


Last edited by ChaosKnight75 on Mon May 04, 2015 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Novel Kars vs Elder God Demonbane

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