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Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by Zarathustra on Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:12 pm

Kurohige wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:


Why are you getting upset over a fictional debate? No one is trying to make snipes at Marvel or DC. Just because we're arguing for other characters, doesn't make us biased. Ever considered that we're not lowballing, but just that your favorite characters' feats simply don't match the opposition? The only spite thread I made was EGD vs Marvel/DC, and that was just a joke. No one here is trying to start flame wars.

The double standard you speak of is non existent. There are manga verses where they have above infinity, but we don't count that either. Like Ginji can demand more than an infinite amount of energy, but you don't see me using that as a legitimate feat.
I'm not getting upset though lol, I just asked a question. I like how you guys say nobody is taking snipes at Marvel or DC, yet we got Dhalsim gloating about how wnaked or weak marvel and DC is and taking all the chances he can get an make spite threads. I also don't know how Marvel or DC are my favorites when my avatar, name, and history on Animevice beg to differ XD, I only argued for them because you guys were clearly lowballing, some of the people lowballing know nothing of the characters. It's lowballing because of blatant bias, most things posted of a Marvel or DC characters doing something impossible if considered unusable, yet, we acceptf FLT, infinityxinfinity big bang, absolute conceptual damage, ect.

Well you seem to be getting upset with the way people present their arguments. Even if you feel like someone is low balling or wanking, there's still no need to get upset at the opponent.

I only said Living Tribunal was over hyped because Naruto Uzumaki was trolling the fuck out of the threads. When did I ever gloat about how weak they are? Marvel and DC characters have no answer for high level conceptual attacks, which is true. I'm not lowballing or laughing at Marvel or DC when I say they don't have powers that they have never shown before. The only spite thread I made was EGD vs Marvel/DC and that was just as a joke.

It doesn't matter what your favorite verse is. You were getting upset over us saying certain characters like Beyonder weren't as powerful as you were arguing them to be. In the Battler Ushiromiya vs Beyonder thread, we proved that power, destructive capacity, speed, and everything were irrelevant and only conceptual attacks could beat it. You couldn't prove that Beyonder could use high level conceptual attacks and there was that.

We don't disregard feats of characters doing something impossible. Punching through black holes is an acceptable feat even though it's impossible.

No one ever tried using Infinity X Infinity Big Bang as a legitimate feat. Why are you saying we did?

I already explained why allowing FTL feats does not contradict being bigger than infinity. Logic vs dictionary definitions there. Going FTL is illogical, but allowed in fiction because fictional writers can create their own physics for their worlds. However, the definition of infinity is the highest you can get. It's just a concept of being limitless with nothing being bigger than you. It's the same as omnipotence. You can't be bigger than infinity, and you can't be stronger than omnipotence.

You don't see me trying to use Ginji being able to demand more than an infinite amount of energy as a legitimate feat.
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by Kurohige on Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:16 pm

Zarathustra wrote:

No because comic book writers are able to create their own physics. They can make it possible to be FTL because in fictional physics, infinite energy isn't needed for FTL travel. What they can't do, is change the definition of the English language. You can't be stronger than omnipotent beings, and you can't be bigger than infinity. Those two are facts. If the writer has anything bigger than infinity, then it isn't truly infinite to begin with.

What's so hard to understand about infinity being the largest you can possibly get? If the multiverse were infinite, nothing could be bigger than it, but clearly the omniverse is bigger than the multiverse, meaning the multiverse isn't truly infinite to begin with.

I never claimed Nyarlathotep was larger than infinite. Yes she's above the concept of damage meaning she can't be killed by conventional means. What's so crazy about being able to tank the destruction and creation if infinite universes? That means multiverse+++ durability. So basically conventional damage can't be used against a being that powerful. Demonbane beat her with the Shining Trapezohedron, which is a combination of sealing, reality warping, and conceptual weapon, that bypasses the conventional damage.

Earth 616 in Marvel is parallel version of ours, just adding in superheroes and villains, yet logic is defied.  Alas, you realise that some infinities can be bigger than others, right? This is a heavily discussed topic http://deron.meranda.us/ruminations/infinity/
For instance, the infinite numbers between zero and one (decimals) is actually considered to be larger than the infinite whole numbers (1,2,3,5, etc.) ascending upwards.
http://gizmodo.com/5910014/how-one-infinity-can-be-bigger-than-another

Nya's durability>Infinite
She is also>Concept damage
If she survived billions of universes blowing up then sure, she she is taking infinite destruction, how is that only Multiverse+++?
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by ChaosKnight75 on Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:18 pm

Kurohige wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:

No because comic book writers are able to create their own physics. They can make it possible to be FTL because in fictional physics, infinite energy isn't needed for FTL travel. What they can't do, is change the definition of the English language. You can't be stronger than omnipotent beings, and you can't be bigger than infinity. Those two are facts. If the writer has anything bigger than infinity, then it isn't truly infinite to begin with.

What's so hard to understand about infinity being the largest you can possibly get? If the multiverse were infinite, nothing could be bigger than it, but clearly the omniverse is bigger than the multiverse, meaning the multiverse isn't truly infinite to begin with.

I never claimed Nyarlathotep was larger than infinite. Yes she's above the concept of damage meaning she can't be killed by conventional means. What's so crazy about being able to tank the destruction and creation if infinite universes? That means multiverse+++ durability. So basically conventional damage can't be used against a being that powerful. Demonbane beat her with the Shining Trapezohedron, which is a combination of sealing, reality warping, and conceptual weapon, that bypasses the conventional damage.

Earth 616 in Marvel is parallel version of ours, just adding in superheroes and villains, yet logic is defied.  Alas, you realise that some infinities can be bigger than others, right? This is a heavily discussed topic http://deron.meranda.us/ruminations/infinity/
For instance, the infinite numbers between zero and one (decimals) is actually considered to be larger than the infinite whole numbers (1,2,3,5, etc.) ascending upwards.
http://gizmodo.com/5910014/how-one-infinity-can-be-bigger-than-another

Nya's durability>Infinite
She is also>Concept damage
If she survived billions of universes blowing up then sure, she she is taking infinite destruction, how is that only Multiverse+++?
Check your private messages, I just sent you something. Also whats your username on Vs battle wiki
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by Kurohige on Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:22 pm

Zarathustra wrote:
Kurohige wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:


Why are you getting upset over a fictional debate? No one is trying to make snipes at Marvel or DC. Just because we're arguing for other characters, doesn't make us biased. Ever considered that we're not lowballing, but just that your favorite characters' feats simply don't match the opposition? The only spite thread I made was EGD vs Marvel/DC, and that was just a joke. No one here is trying to start flame wars.

The double standard you speak of is non existent. There are manga verses where they have above infinity, but we don't count that either. Like Ginji can demand more than an infinite amount of energy, but you don't see me using that as a legitimate feat.
I'm not getting upset though lol, I just asked a question. I like how you guys say nobody is taking snipes at Marvel or DC, yet we got Dhalsim gloating about how wnaked or weak marvel and DC is and taking all the chances he can get an make spite threads. I also don't know how Marvel or DC are my favorites when my avatar, name, and history on Animevice beg to differ XD, I only argued for them because you guys were clearly lowballing, some of the people lowballing know nothing of the characters. It's lowballing because of blatant bias, most things posted of a Marvel or DC characters doing something impossible if considered unusable, yet, we acceptf FLT, infinityxinfinity big bang, absolute conceptual damage, ect.

Well you seem to be getting upset with the way people present their arguments. Even if you feel like someone is low balling or wanking, there's still no need to get upset at the opponent.

I only said Living Tribunal was over hyped because Naruto Uzumaki was trolling the fuck out of the threads. When did I ever gloat about how weak they are? Marvel and DC characters have no answer for high level conceptual attacks, which is true. I'm not lowballing or laughing at Marvel or DC when I say they don't have powers that they have never shown before. The only spite thread I made was EGD vs Marvel/DC and that was just as a joke.

It doesn't matter what your favorite verse is. You were getting upset over us saying certain characters like Beyonder weren't as powerful as you were arguing them to be. In the Battler Ushiromiya vs Beyonder thread, we proved that power, destructive capacity, speed, and everything were irrelevant and only conceptual attacks could beat it. You couldn't prove that Beyonder could use high level conceptual attacks and there was that.

We don't disregard feats of characters doing something impossible. Punching through black holes is an acceptable feat even though it's impossible.

No one ever tried using Infinity X Infinity Big Bang as a legitimate feat. Why are you saying we did?

I already explained why allowing FTL feats does not contradict being bigger than infinity. Logic vs dictionary definitions there. Going FTL is illogical, but allowed in fiction because fictional writers can create their own physics for their worlds. However, the definition of infinity is the highest you can get. It's just a concept of being limitless with nothing being bigger than you. It's the same as omnipotence. You can't be bigger than infinity, and you can't be stronger than omnipotence.

You don't see me trying to use Ginji being able to demand more than an infinite amount of energy as a legitimate feat.
Prove to me I was getting upset. Just because I disagreed with constant lowballing and bias? How was I getting upset with Beyonder vs Battler, because i trolled you guys to the point to were going to unfairly ban me? Despite no rules being broken? If anyone was upset it was you guys. I never even swore or insulted anyone, whereas some of you guys were cursing and whatnot. Riiight. I can't find the thread atm the moment but yes someone did use infinitex inifinite big bang. I just posted why some infinite is bigger than others.
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by Kurohige on Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:25 pm

ChaosKnight75 wrote:
Kurohige wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:

No because comic book writers are able to create their own physics. They can make it possible to be FTL because in fictional physics, infinite energy isn't needed for FTL travel. What they can't do, is change the definition of the English language. You can't be stronger than omnipotent beings, and you can't be bigger than infinity. Those two are facts. If the writer has anything bigger than infinity, then it isn't truly infinite to begin with.

What's so hard to understand about infinity being the largest you can possibly get? If the multiverse were infinite, nothing could be bigger than it, but clearly the omniverse is bigger than the multiverse, meaning the multiverse isn't truly infinite to begin with.

I never claimed Nyarlathotep was larger than infinite. Yes she's above the concept of damage meaning she can't be killed by conventional means. What's so crazy about being able to tank the destruction and creation if infinite universes? That means multiverse+++ durability. So basically conventional damage can't be used against a being that powerful. Demonbane beat her with the Shining Trapezohedron, which is a combination of sealing, reality warping, and conceptual weapon, that bypasses the conventional damage.

Earth 616 in Marvel is parallel version of ours, just adding in superheroes and villains, yet logic is defied.  Alas, you realise that some infinities can be bigger than others, right? This is a heavily discussed topic http://deron.meranda.us/ruminations/infinity/
For instance, the infinite numbers between zero and one (decimals) is actually considered to be larger than the infinite whole numbers (1,2,3,5, etc.) ascending upwards.
http://gizmodo.com/5910014/how-one-infinity-can-be-bigger-than-another

Nya's durability>Infinite
She is also>Concept damage
If she survived billions of universes blowing up then sure, she she is taking infinite destruction, how is that only Multiverse+++?
Check your private messages, I just sent you something. Also whats your username on Vs battle wiki
I think you quoted the wrong person lol
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by Zarathustra on Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:26 pm

ChaosKnight75 wrote:
Nya's durability>Infinite
She is also>Concept damage
If she survived billions of universes blowing up then sure, she she is taking infinite destruction, how is that only Multiverse+++?
Check your private messages, I just sent you something. Also whats your username on Vs battle wiki[/quote]


I didn't get a PM. Are you sure you sent it?

My VS Battles username is Goku_Wukong.
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by ChaosKnight75 on Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:30 pm

Zarathustra wrote:
ChaosKnight75 wrote:
Nya's durability>Infinite
She is also>Concept damage
If she survived billions of universes blowing up then sure, she she is taking infinite destruction, how is that only Multiverse+++?
Check your private messages, I just sent you something. Also whats your username on Vs battle wiki


I didn't get a PM. Are you sure you sent it?

My VS Battles username is Goku_Wukong.[/quote] It's hard to have PMs here. Make an account on AnimeVice Boards if you can then add me. My username is the same as here.
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by Zarathustra on Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:30 pm

Kurohige wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:

No because comic book writers are able to create their own physics. They can make it possible to be FTL because in fictional physics, infinite energy isn't needed for FTL travel. What they can't do, is change the definition of the English language. You can't be stronger than omnipotent beings, and you can't be bigger than infinity. Those two are facts. If the writer has anything bigger than infinity, then it isn't truly infinite to begin with.

What's so hard to understand about infinity being the largest you can possibly get? If the multiverse were infinite, nothing could be bigger than it, but clearly the omniverse is bigger than the multiverse, meaning the multiverse isn't truly infinite to begin with.

I never claimed Nyarlathotep was larger than infinite. Yes she's above the concept of damage meaning she can't be killed by conventional means. What's so crazy about being able to tank the destruction and creation if infinite universes? That means multiverse+++ durability. So basically conventional damage can't be used against a being that powerful. Demonbane beat her with the Shining Trapezohedron, which is a combination of sealing, reality warping, and conceptual weapon, that bypasses the conventional damage.

Earth 616 in Marvel is parallel version of ours, just adding in superheroes and villains, yet logic is defied.  Alas, you realise that some infinities can be bigger than others, right? This is a heavily discussed topic
For instance, the infinite numbers between zero and one (decimals) is actually considered to be larger than the infinite whole numbers
Nya's durability>Infinite
She is also>Concept damage
If she survived billions of universes blowing up then sure, she she is taking infinite destruction, how is that only Multiverse+++?

The video even said although there are more numbers between 0 and 1, the sets are still ultimately the same size, as both are never ending.

An infinite quantity is boundlessly large. The mathematician Georg Cantor realized that all infinite sets don’t have the same size, or cardinality. Some infinite sets are countable, meaning that each member of the set can be mapped to a member of the natural numbers (1, 2, 3, …). For example, every odd number can be placed in an ordered list:

1. 1
2. 3
3. 5
4. 7
5. 9
And so on. Even though intuitively, there should be half as many odd numbers as there are natural (counting) numbers, being infinite, both sets are the same size. Natural numbers, odd numbers, multiples of 18, prime numbers, and even rational numbers (fractions) all have the same cardinality.

Also infinity as a concept is larger than all real numbers added together.


Yes Nyarlathotep can tank an infinite amount of damage, meaning she is above the concept of damage, meaning she can't be killed by conventional means, as even an infinite amount of damage didn't faze her.
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by Zarathustra on Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:37 pm

ChaosKnight75 wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:
ChaosKnight75 wrote:
Nya's durability>Infinite
She is also>Concept damage
If she survived billions of universes blowing up then sure, she she is taking infinite destruction, how is that only Multiverse+++?
Check your private messages, I just sent you something. Also whats your username on Vs battle wiki


I didn't get a PM. Are you sure you sent it?

My VS Battles username is Goku_Wukong.
It's hard to have PMs here. Make an account on AnimeVice Boards if you can then add me. My username is the same as here.[/quote]

PM sent on animeviceboards.
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by Othus on Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:38 pm

this thread is blowing my mind lol.
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by Omnivortex on Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:47 pm

EVA_01 wrote:
Omnivortex wrote:
EVA_01 wrote:
ChaosKnight75 wrote:
Omnivortex wrote:How strong is kagutsuchi?
Creates billions of universes at every moment while ending the same amount and is the concept of all of creation and existence personified, which includes a potentially infinite multiverse.

(Potentially)? XD
seems OP as hell, but LT is also OP ,he is 16th dimensional.

Lemme give you a rundown.

There is the SMT verse, SMT stands for Shin Megami Tensei. The verse is comprised of a collection of universes called the Amala multiverse, along with universes / realms / dimensions that exist outside of Amala.

Collectively, the verse is made up of infinite universes, some of these universes are planes of non-existence, some of them are metaphysical, and some of them are hyperdimensional.

Kagutsuchi is the concept of creation itself, it represents, manages, and embodies all of existence, each and every universe (called "worlds") there is, it pivots all fundamental concepts such as time, death, life, space, and pretty much any concept needed to establish existence.

Kagutsuchi, by its presence alone, creates and destroys billions of universes every passing moment without doing anything. By it's nature since it pivots all existential concepts, it surpasses all dimensions by default.
So is he omnipotent? You don't understand that in Marvel there is an infinite gap between dimensions and just the 4th Dimension encompassed the universe. 4D beings are Universal, in Marvel 3D beings are people like us. 4D is infinitky above 3rd Dimension , 5D is infinitely above the 4th and so on. LT is many infinities above an infinitely expanding universe.

Billions of universe is nothing to him tbh. He is above space and time ,Eternity and infinity ,all abstracts of Marvel. So that's why I belive he wins
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by Kurohige on Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:48 pm

Zarathustra wrote:
Kurohige wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:

No because comic book writers are able to create their own physics. They can make it possible to be FTL because in fictional physics, infinite energy isn't needed for FTL travel. What they can't do, is change the definition of the English language. You can't be stronger than omnipotent beings, and you can't be bigger than infinity. Those two are facts. If the writer has anything bigger than infinity, then it isn't truly infinite to begin with.

What's so hard to understand about infinity being the largest you can possibly get? If the multiverse were infinite, nothing could be bigger than it, but clearly the omniverse is bigger than the multiverse, meaning the multiverse isn't truly infinite to begin with.

I never claimed Nyarlathotep was larger than infinite. Yes she's above the concept of damage meaning she can't be killed by conventional means. What's so crazy about being able to tank the destruction and creation if infinite universes? That means multiverse+++ durability. So basically conventional damage can't be used against a being that powerful. Demonbane beat her with the Shining Trapezohedron, which is a combination of sealing, reality warping, and conceptual weapon, that bypasses the conventional damage.

Earth 616 in Marvel is parallel version of ours, just adding in superheroes and villains, yet logic is defied.  Alas, you realise that some infinities can be bigger than others, right? This is a heavily discussed topic
For instance, the infinite numbers between zero and one (decimals) is actually considered to be larger than the infinite whole numbers
Nya's durability>Infinite
She is also>Concept damage
If she survived billions of universes blowing up then sure, she she is taking infinite destruction, how is that only Multiverse+++?

The video even said although there are more numbers between 0 and 1, the sets are still ultimately the same size, as both are never ending.

An infinite quantity is boundlessly large. The mathematician Georg Cantor realized that all infinite sets don’t have the same size, or cardinality. Some infinite sets are countable, meaning that each member of the set can be mapped to a member of the natural numbers (1, 2, 3, …). For example, every odd number can be placed in an ordered list:

1. 1
2. 3
3. 5
4. 7
5. 9
And so on. Even though intuitively, there should be half as many odd numbers as there are natural (counting) numbers, being infinite, both sets are the same size. Natural numbers, odd numbers, multiples of 18, prime numbers, and even rational numbers (fractions) all have the same cardinality.

Also infinity as a concept is larger than all real numbers added together.


Yes Nyarlathotep can tank an infinite amount of damage, meaning she is above the concept of damage, meaning she can't be killed by conventional means, as even an infinite amount of damage didn't faze her.
Ah, okay, gotcha.
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by sendmenudes on Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:59 pm

Oh look more Marvel bashing. You guys just don't quit. I bet you think Naruto can beat Silver Surfer too.

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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by Zarathustra on Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:00 pm

sendmenudes wrote:Oh look more Marvel bashing. You guys just don't quit. I bet you think Naruto can beat Silver Surfer too.

Why are you getting butthurt over a fictional debate?
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by Akronawol17 on Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:19 pm

Send, why do you think we're downplaying? The Kagutsuchi has better feats, so he wins. How is that donwplay?

Also, Zarath, don't call people butthurt please. You know better then that, it only causes problems to insult others in a debate.
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by Chef_Banchou on Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:41 pm

Send, don't go around assuming things and claiming downplay, please. No one is downplaying, Kagtsuchi simply has better feats, so he would win. Also, please refrain from mocking the community. No one here believes that Naruto is even close to that level.
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by Kurohige on Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:50 pm

Lol why did two mods and naother user have to come down and say the same thing?
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by ChaosKnight75 on Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:01 pm

Kurohige wrote:Lol why did two mods and naother user have to come down and say the same thing?
Just shows how dedicated this site and all its mods are in enforcing the rules.
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by Kurohige on Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:03 pm

Kinda redundant, but alright.
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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

Post by zerogodlike on Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:41 am

Off topic But nice site othus.

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Re: Kagutsuchi vs Living Tribunal

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